Bungi Bill

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Posts by Bungi Bill

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  55

  ..Which has Caused You the Most Grief in Your Life..The Outside World or Watchtower World?..

  by OUTLAW in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  according to the wbt$... the outside world is supposed to be a horrible place... .

  the outside world hasn't caused me nearly as much grief,as watchtower world... outside world (5% grief).....watchtower world..(95% grief)... .

  which has caused you the most grief in your life... the outside world or watchtower world?...

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  Bungi Bill

  If ever there was such a thing as a "No Brainer", this question would have to be it:

  - the Watchtower World by a long shot ....... so much so that I run completely out of unpleasant adjectives with which to describe it!

  Bill
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  20

  Went to the DC today...

  by dontplaceliterature in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i caught the entire session today, and strangely, it was the first time i was able to stay completely alert for an entire dc program.

  i'm guessing the reason for that is that i was looking at the program with a critical eye for the first time in my life and was not being hypnotised by mind-numbing repitition (see steve hassen's combatting cult mind control).

  the program wasn't that bad.

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  Bungi Bill

  I have heard some whacky explanations as to "what convinced me it was The Truth", but demon attacks? That one stands head and shoulders above the rest!

  Bill.
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  46

  How Being a Witness made you Lose out on Higher Education and Careers

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, folks.

  been thinking of this, because of having been raised in the witnesses.

  i reflect back on opportunities i would have encountered and seized, had it not been for being controlled by the witness organization being told higher education was not needed.

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  Bungi Bill

  I, too, worked in instrumentation, despite having no formal qualifications in that field:

  - for several years, I maintained a registered calibration laboratory (car battery manufacturing).

  - then later, I was in charge of all instrument maintenance (both fixed and portable) for a power supply company.

  Additionally, I have worked extensively with all facets of protection relay testing, with no higher qualifications than a paper in Advanced Trade Studies.

  However, there always comes a point where, without the benefit of higher qualifications, you strike the proverbial brick wall. For example, in relay testing, clients were always asking for advice on what settings should be applied to their relays. Without the mathematical skills and theoretical knowledge that is taught at either Diploma level or higher, though, you don't dare provide any such guidance (Such nasties as Earth Rise Potential, Pole Slip or Negative Sequence Currents - all of which, if you get it wrong, can either kill somebody or cause irreversible damage to plant).

  In other words, the relay technician can sell the protection system to the client, install it, test it, commission it; do everything except calculate the setting levels to apply. Often, this came as something of a let down to the client - a case of "why did you not tell us this when you submitted your quote for the project?"

  As a young JW, I heard every explanation as to why a College Education "was not necessary" - even to the point that, supposedly, "you can get paid more for unskilled work, than skilled work." It did not take me long to figure out that this was nonsense, of course! Where I currently work, a Graduate Engineer's income is roughly double that of a Licensed Electrician (and more than double that of a Mechanical Fitter). A tradesman could get the same remuneration as that by taking on remote site work (as I did for a number of years), but even on remote sites, a Graduate Engineer's rates are correspondingly higher again. During the recession of the early 1990s, in order to get any sort of a decent paying job at all, I had to take on remote site work (without Degree level qualifications, there was just nothing else available during those years).

  Unfortunately, this did not just drive another nail into the coffin of our family life - it stitched into it an entire row of nails. (I could write a whole book about that, but not right now!)

  So, yes, having learned what I know from the "University of Hard Knocks", I do take an exceedingly dim view on those who are down on Higher Education.

  On a positive note, I class myself as lucky as having been able to get into a trade (I was 24 when I began the apprenticeship). One only has to look through the door into the Production Area at the plant where I work to see what the alternative would have been:

  - working on the Production Line in a Meat Packing plant is a grim prospect, with an even grimmer future to it; within the next five to ten years, most of that work will be performed by robots.

  Bill.
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  46

  How Being a Witness made you Lose out on Higher Education and Careers

  by flipper in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hi, folks.

  been thinking of this, because of having been raised in the witnesses.

  i reflect back on opportunities i would have encountered and seized, had it not been for being controlled by the witness organization being told higher education was not needed.

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  Bungi Bill

  I consider myself lucky that I was even able to learn a trade, as the JWs tried to stop that, also. It was only my high grades through high school, plus contacts that my non-JW father had in the industry, that got me an opening there. (During those years leading up to 1975, the WTS was strong about "young people should have the minimum education, and then pioneer").

  Later, I made several attempts to do the Diploma course in Electrical Engineering, but either work or family commitments made that a non-starter:

  - Very difficult attempting the Diploma course when you are working 16 hour days!

  - Even doing the trade course proved to be disastrous for family life (by then I was married with two children).

  To those who have later been able to pick up the baton and complete College studies, despite what the WTS did to them, I tip my hat! The fact remains, though, that the best time to study is when you are straight out of high school.

  These days, I am resigned to going no further than a busted a$$ electrician can expect to go - and the only letters that I will have after my name are "S.B." (ie. "Silly B*&$")

  Bill.
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  101

  Atheist Fascism

  by Band on the Run in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it is so draining for me to constantly read threads by atheists that assert that those of who are uncertain or have faith have irrational minds.

  god can not be proven or unproven.

  the harping is tedious.

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  Bungi Bill

  Unfortunately, the subject of religion does tend to bring out the worst in people -whether they are for it or against it.

  A fanatical atheist can be as big a pain in the backside as any religious zealot you have ever met.

  Bill.
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  10

  Watchtower and the Woodshed

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  watchtower and the woodshed .

  today i uploaded to my blog an illustration from 1957 that had a serious impact on children at the time.

  i remember those days.

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  Bungi Bill

  Having grown up in that era, I agree with Sizemik that corporal punishment was very much the norm, rather than the exception. It was often very severe, too - the expression that I remember often hearing at home was a "thrashing."

  In the schools, beatings were often administered simply because the teacher had become frustrated with his students (or her students - some of the worst excesses I observed were carried out by female teachers). Nothing at all, of course, to do with the fact that their teaching methods might be badly wanting!

  However, advocating corporal punishment in a religious work raises matters to an entirely new level. It tends to make parents think that they are violating Divine Law if they don't flog their children. It tends to become a "take what a 'worldly' parent would hand out by way of punishment, then add 50% on top of that again" type situation.

  No wonder ther eare so many screwed up people amongst the JWs.

  Bill.
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  42

  Was there anything different about you that helped you escape the WT?

  by Giordano in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  for me i know it was because i was a reader.. i began reading books at the age of 13, this was in the 1950's.

  because there were some serious family problems i had two escapes i could count on reading and associating with my friends at the kingdom hall.. as i devoured steinbeck, hemingway, wolf etc.

  my world view expanded....it had to.

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  Bungi Bill

  Ironically, it was my being an avid reader that first drew me to the Witnesses. Later, though, when doubts began to develop, it was reading that helped draw me away - as in the case of Giordano.

  This was prior to the Internet, so very little was available - even in the public libraries. Fortunately, the job I had involved a considerable amount of travelling. Wherever I went, I always made a point of checking out the public library, and reading anything they had on Jehovahs Witnesses.

  No that there was a lot!

  - Schnell's 30 Years a Watchtower Slave. Hardly an unbiased work, but the author was highly disgusted with the WTS, and took no pains to conceal that fact!

  - Stevenson's 1975 -Year of Doom? was a revealing work, written by somebody who had served at all levels up to "Circuit Servant" - and whose perspective was greatly altered once he was able to view "the organisation" from the outside.

  - Penton's Apocalypse Postponed was another informative read.

  (At that stage, I had never heard of Raymond Franz's Crisis of Conscience).

  Apart from being an avid reader, the only other characteristic that may have helped is my stubborn streak that comes out when I feel I have been unfairly treated, messed around - or just generally been taken for a ride!

  Bill.
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  41

  Opinion-Is This Clear Evidence that Jehovah's Holy Spirit is with The Watchtower?

  by DavinciCodeBreaker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was having a discussion with an aquaintance about if there was evidence that the watchtower has jehovah's holy spirit.

  he said, "given the fact that no other organization has won more supreme court cases than jehovah's witnesses to protect their religious freedom in north america and abroad is unrefutable evidence of jehovah's blessing by means of his holy spirit".. your thoughts?.

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  Bungi Bill

  To start with, have the JWs really won more court cases than anybody else? (Whether in the USA or elsewhere). If indeed they have, then the Exclusive Bretheren would have to be close on their heels.

  In earlier times, the legal system was not an avenue that was available to establish religious freedom with. Rather, during the Reformation in Europe, people had to win religious freedom by force of arms. And, typically, they attributed each military victory to their having the backing of God's Holy Spirit! (They also used that to justify their torturing to death of prisoners afterwards, too - but that is another story).

  One such example of many was the Battle of Dunkeld, in Scotland in 1689. There, the Covenanters barricaded themselves into the cathederal, sang psalms, and fought off a vigorous attack by the Highland Army, which was still flush with their victory in the Pass of Killiecrankie. Of course, the successful outcome of the battle was all to do with God's holy spirit - and nothing at all to do with the fact that Highland leadership had by then collapsed!

  Even in the case of the JWs, the court system acheived no success for them against Nazi Germany. In Europe, their freedom to practice their religion was likewise acheived by force of arms:

  - only in the case of the Witnesses, it was somebody else who had to do their dirty work for them.

  I would put their courtroom successes - where these have occurred - down to the fact that legal action was available to them. Otherwise, their claims of "success being evidence of God's spirit" are no different to those of any other religious group.

  Bill.
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  15

  Space Shuttle, NASA, and The NAZI SS.

  by pedal power in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  todays last landing of the space shuttle atlantis, and the ending and retirement of the space shuttle fleet,signals the end of an era in manned space flight in the usa.. i feel obliged to bring to your attention, the man who put the the usa at the forfront of the space race, and put the first man on the moon, and was the brains and driving force of nasa, that would result ultimately in the shuttle programme, the construction of the space station, and the hubble telescope.. who was he, and what was his background ?

  well his name was wernher von braum, he was a german soldier, scientist, who attained the rank of sturbannfuher in the ss, he was one of the leading figures in the development of rocket technology in the nazi regime, developing the v2 weapon, the first icbm.. he and his team of german scientists, were captured near the end of ww2 and taken to the usa, there they escaped the war trials, and von braun, the former nazi officer, was put in charge of the space programme, set up by president kennedy, he and his team of former nazi scientists designed and built the saturn v rocket which took men to the moon in july 1969, i was 7yo, my father insisted on wakening me up, to view the looner landing, i am glad he did, and now 42 years later its over, and some of our thanks, if not all must go to,wernher von braun, german ss officer..

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  Bungi Bill

  That one researcher makes a major break-through (in this case, Goddard's liquid fuelled rocket engine) - then somebody else vastly improves on it - is nothing unique.

  The fact is that, by 1940, only Germany and the Soviet Union had carried out any proper Research and Development work with rockets;

  - the Red Army using these extensively in lieu of artillery, with the thinking being that rocket launching equipment did not have to be robustly constructed, as there was no recoil to absorb. Some of this weaponry proved to be extremely effective, particularly the multi-barreled launcher known as the "Stalin Organ."

  - however, during those years, Germany was streets ahead of everybody else in R&D with rockets.

  As pedal power correctly observes, the success of the United States space program was almost entirely dependent on Von Braun and his associates.

  Bill.
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  61

  How Many on JWNet are still JWs?

  by RayPublisher in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i've been wondering about this for some time.

  if there are 60,000+ registered users on here, what percentage are actual non-dfed or non-daed witnesses?

  if it was 1/3, that would be over 20,000 active/inactive witnesses that post and read these pages- and that's huge.

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  Bungi Bill

  Although I have been well and truly out for along time now, I can still relate to those JWs who are presently "lurking" on sites such as this. Harboring secret doubts after the failure of WTS prophecy ref. 1975, I began my exit in the days before the Internet; but read everything about the JWs that I could find in any public library I that entered:

  - principallySchnell's 30 Years a Watchtower Slave, Stevenson's 1975 - Year of Doom?, and Penton's Apocalypse Postponed.

  As many (perhaps the majority?) here would have discovered, to know is one thing, to act on ones knowledge is entirely another matter. It is not always that simple to make the break, particularly if family is involved. In my case, finally making the move did end up costing me my family.

  Probably as a legacy of those years leading up to my exit, I still have nightmares in which I have broken with the JWs, but am still receiving assignment forms to do talks on the Ministry School!

  Bill